Waveform display for internal path points
From N-Track Wiki
I would like to see a feature which showed the peak levels of the final mixdown (and possibly other points in the signal chain) in time-line form within the timeline window. The way I would like to see it done is to have an option of displaying timelines of any signal point in the system with the background color (at each point of the timeline) reflecting the meter colors and/or have a line like the volume envelopes that indicates the peak levels. While I am still on rev. 3.3 I do not find that the .npk files are adequate for finding the regions where peaks are close to full-scale without zooming in so far that you can't see how much of a track is close to (or over) 0dB. By also alowing you to display a timeline of the mixdown (or groups or input to a compressor or...) you could get an overview that would show what regions of the mix might require attention. The whole range of the "peak" display only needs to cover the top 12dB or so (perhaps user selectable). Having the ability to optionally display a timeline for the overall mix (and the group sends and possibly other signal points) would also give a more logical place to draw the master volume envelopes (and the other envelopes not associated directly with a track such as group sends).
You could also display this information on the individual tracks to clarify the existing timeline data in terms of peak level, preferably simultaneously with the various envelope traces. In this way you could selectively make adjustments and see where you are in terms of clipping without having to play back and watch the meters or use the normalization scan repeatedly. It would also help to identify which channels are contributing the most to the the crest factor (where high levels in a single channel correspond to high levels in the mixdown). This in turn might suggest ways to adjust the mix to make things louder without excess use of compression.
The problem with using the scans for this purpose is that they only find the highest peak, if you knock that peak down you have to rescan for the next highest peak, and so on ad infinitum. With the whole mixdown visible as well as the individual tracks you could tell at a glance all the regions that needed attention and the effectiveness of any measures you take to solve the problem. While a change such as altering the compression on one channel would require the whole mix to be re-evaluated, changes such as volume envelopes would only require localized recalculation and could be made "instantly". With modern computers this whole deal would not take a huge amount of time and would be extremely useful for maximizing loudness without using compression or limiting as well as for optimizing the performance of a compressor/limiter. Being able to disable the feature would allow working more quickly when you are dealing with other issues.
For me this would be especially useful because I work with generally acoustic music and overall compression is very bad sonically. A master compressor with a single band will squash the whole mix in response to one peak. It would be much better to bring that one peak dowm on the individual channel, perhaps with an envelope adjustment so the level of the other tracks stays constant. Multi-band compression may be better but basically rebalances the EQ every time compression is required in one band. If it is quick you might not notice it.
The abillity to create timelines for other points in the signal chain would be nice but not as critical as the mixdown timeline would be. To see at a glance what sections of an aux send might be clipping the input of a plug-in would be nice, as would various other potential points such as compressor inputs or equalizer headroom.
First, there is a way to do some of this, at least for the master channel. Simply do an offline mixdown to 32 and import the result.
However, the timline waveform display does not show actual peaks unless you're zoomed in to a rather close view, and therefore can't see the whole song. The current waveform display (well, as of V3.3 and also the early V4 that I used temporarily) is useful because it shows intensity, but it would be great to also have the option to always show peak values. In other words, for each pixel slot on the time axis, the values shown should be the peak value for all samples represented by that pixel.
Second, while it's nice not to send signals over 0dB to plugins, doing this does not cause clipping. n-Track's internal bus is 32-bit floating point format, where the actual maximum level is over 700 dB, which is nearly impossible to obtain on purpose and very unlikely to happen by accident. Therefore, while it is good to avoid "clipping" on an aux bus or plugin, it's not critical unless the plugin is poorly coded or particularly fragile. Still, it would be nice to have a good clear indicator that the signal is going over 0dB at any point in the signal chain, with a convenient means of tracking down where and when it is happening. The timeline suggestion above would be one way, though it might be computationally intensive. For example, after making a change to any parameter that would affect a timeline of an internal point, the waveform would be out of date until the waveforms were recalculated, doing the equivalent of an offline mixdown. I would not want N to do this after each tweak of a parameter, I would only want it to do it on request.
Note also that it does not matter at all if the output of a track, aux, or group goes over 0dBFS, as long as the mix stays under. Really: it does not affect the resulting sound quality. Going over on input to an effect might matter (depending on the plugin). But worrying about other points in the signal chain (other than plugin inputs and master channel level) is a complete waste of time and effort. Therefore, if n-Track does offer a feature like the one suggested above, it should only cover signal path points that might actually matter. (Inputs to plugins and master channel output. Maybe there are others but I can't think of any.)
As an alternative to the timeline display of internal signal path points, maybe it would be good enough to have a "clip" indicator for each mixer strip item with plugins that lights whenever the input to any plugin on that strip gets an input over 0dB. Certainly it wouldn't be as handy as the timeline strip, but it would be helpful and would avoid a lot of technical issues. These lights should stay on until "play" or "record" is pressed, or when the indicator is clicked.
Finally, the fact that n-Track resets the playback VU meters on stop is very frustrating. These should only be reset when we hit Play or Record, not when we stop -- or worse yet, when playback stops automatically. I'd hate to count all the time I've wasted when I played the song just to see the peak level and had the number disappear when the playback stops! (OK, maybe I do have attention deficit disorder.)
Cheers Jeff
Hi Jeff:
I hope I'm doing this correctly..
If I'm violating your space write me some mail and I'll alter the way I'll post a reply to your report..
I have v4.1.6 build 2065 on my desk, as I write this.
If the pause button is pressed the meter "Hangs" and continues to display that meter deflection, or does not reset.. at the instant the pause button is pressed.. Now, that's O.K. And I agree with your thoughts/requests regarding how the meters should respond, at the end of the song/tracks on the timeline. I'm thinking that the meters should be configuerable in the preferences or by right-clicking on the meters, to make IT user adjustable..
Haveing said that, I think IT would be nice to have the "Meters" "Scrubb'able" meaning, If you "mouse drag" over the portion of the track/tracks (by Right-Clicking), or something.. the meters would respond the the .sng file/files.. If that could be done then the user could locate the area-in-question and deal with the amplitude in whatever way he chooses..
On another note to THIS..
In Versions 4.1.5 and onward.. The meter's performance has improved greatly in comparsion to earlier versions, at least for the way I use them.. Haveing the options as to how you want the meters to respond is working quite nicely, at least, for me.. However, I'd like to see the meters respond to "Overs" and show the amount of "Overs" in the same order as to how the meters respond to any amount that is "Under" 0db.. Haveing access to the amount of "Overs" remove the "Guess-work" of makeing adjustments to indivual tracks or "Groups" and the Master amplitude.. for that matter..
Bill..
(Formatting fixed by Mark:)
Learjeff sez:
Bill, Scrubbing is often requested and I'd use it a lot, but that's a separate feature you should ask for in a new page.
The playback meters DO show how much over you are, if you check "Preferences -> Options -> Playback meters anticipate output". This will cause the meters to jump on a peak BEFORE you hear it, but if you minimize playback latency it's too small a delay to notice. (Plus controls respond right away, so low latency is nice.)
Recording meters cannot show how far over you went. It's just not possible. If you do want to know how far over, just shoot for -6dB, and if you hit -1dB, well, you're 5 dB over your target! OK, not much of a suggestion but it's really the best that can be done. This is how the hardware works: it doesn't tell the computer how far over 0 you went, because it doesn't know.
